Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thank you for the break down and analysis here. I completely agree with your three points.
    I think me not being able to practice before the games started hurt me a lot.
     
  2. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I'm afraid I don't have solutions on that front :D
     
  3. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Yeah overall me not having a coach is my biggest problem. Because I only can really focus on 1 or 2 things at a time, while I do that sometimes other things become stagnant or get worse(example my drop shot) My drop shot is normally not as bad as how it looked yesterday.

    But here’s is what I’m finding as someone who has no access to a coach
    1.) I can only really fix/focus on one thing at a time maybe two.
    2.) doing footwork drills during the week and before I actually play my games helps a lot.
    3.) doing proper shadow strokes throughout the week and/or getting in a lot practice strokes with a shuttle before I play helps a ton.

    Yesterday I was not able to do points 2 or 3 and as seen , it had a huge impact on my parts of my game ☹️
     
  4. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    Practicing footwork would help you a lot. Most of the shot went out of balance because you didnt get in the position.
    This is the consequence of playing too much with beginners [ Most of the coaches wont let their client hit the bird till they could get the stroke and footwork right] . I've seen a lot of people like you in my club. I couldnt match up with them at all at first. They are pretty darn good to get the job done without the correct technique. Yes, they could clear from back to back or even backhand. They could perform incorrect net kill or drop shot and still got points because at the end of the day whoever reached 21 first is the winner.
    I only have coaching for time to time, but mostly self educated. I watch a lot of Youtube and try to comprehend the technique and everything together. I love watching the pro play because their movement is beauty. I try to move like them play like them. There is reasons why do they have to hit it like that not this[ watch the korean double or indonesia, they have pretty good basic on stroke ] Trying to understand every aspect and element. Then I started to understand why do I need to do this because everything has chain effect to each other.
    I played with people like this in my club. I didnt play to win, but instead I took advantage of it since the speed of the game was very slow. I performed each shot slowly and tried to understand it. No one wanted to pair up with me because we would end up losing because I didnt play to win. I played to practice my shot. I used to play two clubs in a day 8 hrs in total, but time was my luxury back then.
    Now, Im still not perfect still a long way to go, but people without correct basic could barely play against me now. I could beat anyone who play without correct technique in my club. Because at the end of the day, all the basic stuff add up. Get your basic right. It takes time, but without it you wont get any further.

    Keep it up!!! You already have what it takes [patient and motivation]
     
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  5. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Any thoughts as to what I’m doing wrong on my footwork here ? I feeL like I’m transferring my weight properly but it doesn’t look right

    Thanks I’m advance for any suggestions
     
  6. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Well, it's several things, but mostly the old story:
    You stop your hip too early. Furthermore, your right leg stays almost straight while preloading, so you probably don't make use of it too much, and you should try to not drop your right shoulder, but actively close (pull your shoulders towards the inside) using your chest muscles and your upper abs. Those are just points to get more power, focus on not stopping your hip, but leading with it. How much exactly you turn your hip depends on the stroke, the position and the positioning of your partner, but you need to be able to get 180 degrees!
     
    #506 speCulatius, May 1, 2019
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
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  7. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thank you. I guess I should have been a more specific in my question. I see that I stop my hip early and that’s why I posted this. What I’m trying to figure out is why. Not bending my right leg enough is definitely one of the issues so thank you for telling me about that(could that be then main issue holding me back ?)
    Besides that any other thoughts as to why my right hip is not coming forward enough ?
     
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  8. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Might be anything... might be you're forcing the stroke too much, might be you're starting it too late, so you have to move your torso too early, might be you're still not behind the shuttle enough to step through the shot... there's more options, but I think it mainly is a combination of these three. Hard to tell if you're behind enough in all your videos I've seen, so I cannot say that for sure. You're certainly forcing it too much, but you know that, maybe related to starting the stroke too late... sorry I cannot really help, if I was coaching you, I'd look at it from several angles to try to identify the main reason to figure out what exactly to tell you, but from videos, I can only make assumptions. Sorry.

    Maybe focus on stepping through the stroke and try to see where you hit the shuttle. When your losing the steep angles, you're not behind enough. Also, start the stroke earlier and really get your shoulder up there, reaching up for the shuttle, but that's another old story. You can also try to start the stroke with your hip not only going forward, but also upward, that might help as well. I think I said that before, too...

    Having said that, you're probably behind the shuttle enough to step through, when you get it earlier, but that's details that I cannot say from videos... and all of this has been said before. Did you take notes when reading the replies? If not, go through it again, take notes on the suggestions, then go through your videos and try to see what has improved and choose one (two at most) things to focus on. Keep the notes with your camera/tripod and watch your videos considering the notes yourself, I think that will help you more than reading the same things over and over again.

    Don't forget, you've come a long way already. You have realized that bad habits can return and that your path is getting more difficult, but that's even more of a reason to keep track on these things.

    You can certainly come back here to post videos and show the progress, yourself reflecting what has improved and what you're having trouble with, this will keep you from reading the same answers again and again while it might inspire others who are just reading this thread. I really do appreciate the effort your putting into this and I'm always happy to reply, but I feel it's getting redundant.

    Keep up your work, keep tracking your progress, it's great to see this enthusiasm!
     
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  9. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I appreciate your reply. It can be hard for me to go back through all of these posts as I have so many things to work on, which is why I posted one specific question this time.
    It seems like what you posted here ....

    “Maybe focus on stepping through the stroke and try to see where you hit the shuttle. When your losing the steep angles, you're not behind enough. Also, start the stroke earlier and really get your shoulder up there, reaching up for the shuttle, but that's another old story. You can also try to start the stroke with your hip not only going forward, but also upward, that might help as well. I think I said that before, too...”

    .....Is what I will work on. MSeeley has also told me that I need to start my stroke earlier and jump more up and reach/tilt my right shoulder up.

    Thanks you for helping me with this☺️
     
  10. Spingo80

    Spingo80 New Member

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    Hi Dude
    A few other pointers. Don’t smash while you are going backwards, you won’t get back in if your opponent manages to cushion the return just over the net, you’d be surprised how often this happens against better players.

    A clear is the shot you want to make. I can’t add to anything anyone else has stated about your technique, Practice footwork as well as your racquet technique. It’s such a massive part of the game and not only makes getting around the court quicker, it stops you knackering yourself out and makes shot making easier.

    Lastly, try not to lift the shuttle. Watching that clip, was all lifts and smashes. Vary your shots.
    Keep up the good work fella. Improvement in badminton is a swift process .
    Jer
     
  11. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thanks for the feedback , my clips I put together are mostly my overhead strokes so you won’t see every kind of shot that I take
     
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  12. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    I get your point. It might not cheer you up, but there's always a lot to work on at the same time, the better you get, the more detailed it gets, so that won't change. But why not start right now with only this page? There's not a whole lot, but enough to start a list...
    • balance/footwork
    • elbow going upward
    • drop shot with the same overhead movement as other shots
    • more relaxed movement
    • starting stroke earlier
    • step through the stroke/shot
    • reach up with your shoulder and elbow
    This is only the order these points came up on this page and some of them are related, let me try to sum it up, I'll just leave out the drop shot part, because this is all about the overhead movement, but it should always be in the back of your head!
    • work on your footwork and balance
    • reach up with higher with your shoulder and elbow
    • therefore, you need to start your stroke earlier
    • step through (related to starting earlier)
    • reeeelaaaaax.....
    I would outsource the footwork and balance aspect for now, then the priority number one pretty much picks itself, and priority number to is related to that
    1. start the stroke earlier
    2. reach up higher
    When you keep your pre stroke position like this, the step through might come itself, but you can help it by working on your footwork separately, I suggest to do a scissor jump on both, the backhand and forehand side of the court. I've linked the matching parts of my video, but there's thousands of videos out there.
    I also suggest to do 180 Jumps with the turn only initiated by your hip as part of a workout or a later part of warm-up, to let your body learn what it feels like. Both directions, of course....

    I hope you wrote down these points on a list that's somewhere near your badminton equipment. ;)

    edit: Would you be interested in a hip warm up and mobility video?
     
    #512 speCulatius, May 2, 2019
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  13. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Good stuff here thank you. You’re suggestions are very practical!
     
  14. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I had a very good day the badminton club today. There was hardly anyone there so I was able to get over an hours worth of pure practice and still play many games
    When I got there one of the better players at the club work with me on my drops and footwork. After playing my doubles games I was able to play one singles game and then practice for almost a half hour of just smashes and lifts.

    Here are my shots from today which felt much better and to me looked better!! :D
    Feel free to check out some of the footwork drills that I did along with my smashing précis that are on my channel

    Thanks again for all of your help
    I realize I have to reach up a higher on most of my shots
     
  15. BThane

    BThane Regular Member

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    Good stuff, working with experienced players can really do a world of good. One thing I notice, and I apologize if others have gone over this already, is your follow through seems pretty loose. Of course you should have a follow through, and you should be relaxed and loose rather than tensed up, but you look too loose to me. Often your arms, legs, and even body are swinging around after your shot, and that momentum is dragging you out of position and causing your recovery to be delayed. It kind of looks like you're still putting power into the shot after having hit the shuttle, rather than relaxing after impact, and then when you do relax you're pushing yourself out of position.

    Maybe consider ensuring that after the impact with the shuttle you relax more immediately, or if that's not the cause then perhaps you need to focus on tightening up your recovery a bit and bringing yourself back to the ready position faster. Ensuring that you have good footing before the shot and you can push off strongly into the shot and through to recovery is important.

    I'm not entirely sure what the causes or best solutions are, those are just some ideas. Other more experienced players here will likely have better advice, or I may even be misreading things.
     
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  16. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    I don't find any footwork practice, but I found the some smash practice and that's one of the worst videos so far. You have all the time you need, but you still don't even try to step through the shot! You don't even try to start with your hip!
    • Start the stroke much earlier!
    • Lead with your hip!
    • Step/go through the shot!
    I wanted to see some footwork without a shuttle, maybe even without a racket, to see if there's something going the wrong way already, but I don't need that anymore. When practicing with time, focus on the things you want to focus on. The last point does not only involve your legs, but also your shoulder. You seem to try different movements of your shoulder, without really knowing what you want to achieve. Tilt it upward to reach up. To get more power, let your shoulder go through the shot and close your shoulders using your chest. To get a feeling for this, you can spread your arms, then cross your arms in front of your body and try to pull the shoulders further to the inside.

    On another note, your ready position is (still? getting?) inconsistent. Both your racket and non-racket arms are not consistent in preparation.

    I wouldn't call it loose. Considering he started way too stiff, that is (or would be) a step in the right direction though. A few notes on the follow through without paying attention too much on what you're doing
    • relax your forearm to get into the rebound action of the racket
    • don't let your shoulder drop
    I think you need to work on starting the stroke earlier before getting to anything else. I think you get the points I think you should be focusing on.

    If you're following my YouTube channel, the next video (released today or tomorrow, I'll let you know), is made for you. It's a hip warm up including some mobility exercise. Looking at your videos now, I think you should also do some mobility training for your thoracic spine. I do have some footage of that, but I'm not very happy with that and some other videos are waiting as well, so I'm not sure if I can release it this week. It really is more work than I thought.
     
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  17. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    This is the exercise that i was trying to do in my smash video. There was intentionally no footwork on that video
     
  18. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    The frustration of @speCulatius is because it's so obvious that you are losing so much potential by not getting the right footwork. We know your stroke looks ok because of your garage swings. The biggest thing preventing you from pulling it off in games is your footwork!

    Let's not sugarcoat it - your footwork is poor, given the effort you have put in. Some specific examples are at 0:58 and 1:50.

    0:58 - you get a nice high, short lift from your opponents, perfect to show off your form. You actually get into a good ready position, but look at how your racquet foot lands! It lands in line with your left foot, and more incredibly, you land with your left foot before your right! That means not only are you not stepping through...you're actually hopping. You're hopping on the easiest smash shot possible. Therefore we have no hope when it comes to harder lifts (and we see that clearly because you're flying out of the back of the out on harder lifts all over the video, enough that you don't even recover forwards). It is acceptable to land on your left before right if you have jump smashed, to allow your momentum to move forward, but that 100% requires the right foot to be in front of the left...and you're not jump smashing!

    1:50 - sequence of smashes, the last shows how badly prepared you are to move forwards after smashing. You fall forwards because you hopped on your left leg again very clearly this time, rather than allowing the right leg to come through. It looks almost dangerous how uncontrolled your movement is.

    You NEED to get that right leg through and land it before your leg foot, not just for power, but for balance and recovery and ultimately, injury prevention. I can guarantee your left ankle/knee is not going to take that abuse for long.

    One thing I can only guess is that you don't want to move forward because you're the 'back player' and don't want to move too far forward. This is wrong - you can see it would be faster and more balanced to allow yourself to move forward slightly, then use your right to push off backward if need be. Hopping around on your left foot unbalanced at the back is doing you no favours. The other thing is you WANT to be moving forwards - the example at 1:50 shows you exactly why. You shouldn't just be waiting for your partner to intercept everything, you need to be pushing forwards into the mid-court to keep up the pressure too.

    Fixing this should be your #1 priority for plenty reasons, but injury prevention is critical. Enough said.
     
    #518 DarkHiatus, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  19. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Alright, I do see that. That channel has a lot of useful content and good videos, but does this exercise work on what you wanted to focus on? That's the most important question. You already have a problem stepping through the shot, so why choose (and not adapt) an exercise that even encourages this habit? YouTube coaching videos cannot be a great match for every situation, so sometimes you might want to adapt exercises or choose another one.

    Anyway, I'll try to go through the tips and see whether you do that or not
    1. Move your hip firste, then your shoulder. You are not doing this.
    2. Relax.... It looks like you're getting into the rebound action, that's a good sign. Looking at your shoulder, it looks very tense though.
    3. Exhale and hold your breath. I can see where they're going with this, but I'm not sure how useful this is as a top 3 tip. Anyway, I cannot see that, but my guess is that you're overdoing this.
    Stepping through the stroke is not footwork, it's part of the stroke! Adapting exercises might be tricky (not getting too complex) if you're not used to it, but choosing the right one to practice what you want to focus on should be easier.
     
  20. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    So I was intentionally just working on my swing there. This was the first time ever that I was able to get hundreds of shuttles sent my way and me just focus on my swing. So I was attempting to get some good muscle memory in that. Yes I swing in my garage but the timing compared to actually shuttle coming at me is way different. My game strokes very rarely look like my garage swings(which I been told are decent) so that practice basically is me going from my garage swings with a shuttle on a string to a real court. After I get that down, then I could add in a scissor jump with a smash as my next phase. That’s the progression that I was thinking about doing on my stroke

    In the meantime I am still working on all 6 corners footwork regularly. It might appear that I am not trying to work on footwork but I work on footwork every day and I try to get to the club early and do footwork drills. But once again without someone watching me and correcting my form, I may end up practicing the footwork with less then stellar form so I record it and then try to work on maybe one or two things next time.

    In Doubles my footwork is not fast enough to keep up with the pace of the game so I end up reverting back to old habits or the wrong form.

    Because the only real feedback is coming from the internet my progress will be very slow.
     

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