Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I was able to practice for about 40 minutes yesterday before the games started. I started with some shadow footwork then we practiced a lot of mid court drives which really helped me in the game to me much faster at the net. I was able to play shots that I’ve never been able to play before l. I also did a good amount of drops shots and smashes In practice. I noticed as the night went on my form was worse. My natural bad habits tend to come back but I think I’m slowly creating new better habits.

    Here are my shots from yesterday

    I’ll make another video of last nights practice and post it soon
     
  2. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Good work keeping up the practice!

    I still think you look quite tense when you hit. It's impossible to see your grip exactly, but from the movements of your upper body I can infer that it's probably too tight, too early in the stroke.

    It's very difficult to maintain exactly the right balance and timing of grip/arm/upper body tension, and even a small change can make a surprisingly big difference. We do want to use the muscles (and you've definitely got plenty to use!), but we also want an efficient "whiplash" swing rather than a brute-force "muscular" swing.

    This is not just a tip for beginners. This week I tried keeping my grip relaxed for longer than usual. Holy crap, it turns out I can hit quite hard if I do that! It's easy to forget, even as an experienced player and coach.

    A couple of related tips that can help with this:
    • Think about throwing the arm at the shuttle, rather than "forcing" it
    • Try a "slow, fast" rhythm, where the first part of the swing feels quite slow. That also means starting the swing slightly earlier.
     
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  3. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    These are very good points . I have also noticed a big difference in power when I intentionally delay the tightening of the racket even though I’m putting in less raw force. I will take me a while to work on this and converting it to muscle memory
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I just wonder why, when you play the overhead smash, you do everything decently OK and then your right leg comes forward and then suddenly sort of hangs in the front of your body and then you place it back behind you towards the back of the court. At least put it down on the ground a little forward in front of the body.
     
  5. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Bad habit I need someone to feed me 1000 shuttles and then a third party to scream at me the proper cues
    Ken Scarlata has accepted your invitation. Let's start a conversation.
     
  6. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    It's happening because the movement is unbalanced.

    Quite often, the head is leaning a long way to the left (non-racket side). This is a pattern we see with professional players as well, when they are going for a really big smash. I think it creates an optimal path for the shoulder and arm rotations.

    However, this is a very advanced skill and in this case it's not balanced/controlled enough. The head and shoulders are dipping too much to the left, so the right leg is forced to flick out and maintain balance. Naturally, being heavily muscled on the upper body means you also require more counter-balancing leg movement!

    It reminds me of the "scissoring" leg movement used to regain balance after a lateral jump into round-the head (typically midcourt interception). It has the same elastic "bounce". It's the same mechanic, but out of place.
     
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  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    @Gollum

    I mentioned this particular cue in a post above to better make use of finger power. Try it and let me know what you think...

    "My cue for finger power is to lead the stroke with the butt of the racket for that 1-2 ft around your head while allowing some space to develop between the racket and your hypothenar palm muscles. Then as you're about to extend your arm into the shot, you want to quickly tighten your grip during your pronation into the strike. The feeling you want is a sudden acceleration/whip of the racket head from behind you into the shot. "

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Sure, I agree with that as a description, and it can be useful as a cue for some players -- it's something I've used, but only lightly. I'd be careful about using it heavily, as it's "deconstructing" the action quite a lot.

    These kind of cues are generally best when the player is still "constructing" the action, rather than fine-tuning it. When you're fine-tuning an already sound technique, it's more about timing and feeling. Small tweaks.

    I won't be using "hypothenar palm muscles" as a coaching cue, because almost no one knows what that means. ;)
     
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  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    When you mean "flick out" do you mean flick outwards to the right of the body? Because I am referring to the right leg stepping behind.

    There's a good slow motion shot at 1.19. I agree there is some leaning to the left but I didn't think it that excessive so as to make the right leg step backwards after the shuttle is hit.

    BTW, I thought the sidestep backwards movement was excellent for that point!
     
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  10. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    That one is a scissor-jump gone wrong, because the left foot lands pointing forwards. The foot needs to turn outwards so he can stop himself. Without this, he has no choice except to bring the right foot back immediately.

    This seems to be happening elsewhere too. There is a balance problem when stopping the backwards movement, so the right foot takes an extra step (or sometimes the left foot, in the forehand corner after a jump-out). Not saying this is the only issue. It may be connected to the hip movement / timing.

    Agreed! Nice fluid & quick turn-chasse-jump. :)
     
  11. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    Totally agree. I think it has something to do with his footwork. Most of the shot, he seems to play "too early". It seems like he lacks of the last step to get behind the shuttle, but instead he reached up and play the shot above his head. I mean we all play intercept and trying to play the shot earliest is not a bad idea, but I think that what throw him off the balance. Sometime he even jump backward.
     
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  12. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    So I would agree with this point here , my last step is not back far enough and I definitely can fix this by simple taking a longer step back with my right leg giving me more of an opportunity to come forward after the jump.

    This also might explain why at least on the shot at 1:19 I landed my left leg incorrectly and also why I am not getting my right leg/hip to come forward enough.

    So I guess for me personally the question is ,what “cue” do I need to fix this? I think for me the cue should be:
    - get further behind the shuttle with my final step ( take a longer final step)
    I’m hoping that this cue will have a snowball effect for the rest of the stroke in a positive way

    Thoughts ??
     
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  13. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Btw here are my practice shots before the games. time stamps below
    Drives : from beginning
    Drops 4:54
    Smashes 6:26
     
  14. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    That would be a good idea.
     
  15. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Whoops I forgot the link here ....
     
  16. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Also if did around 10 Minutes of shadow training after my weight lifting session today
    I noticed a little improvement form the last video
     
  17. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

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    It looks good except for the china jump.

    China jump should be done with close to no backward movement it is an intersection shot and will be done with lateral movement with a tiny bit of step back at most. Check this video :


    When you do the china jump footwork in your video you should have felt that it was slow to get back to position.
     
  18. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Respectfully disagree - one use of the China jump as you have linked is an interception shot, there are many more frequent uses, particularly in singles.

    See Kowi Chandra's Back-right footwork at 5:18 for another use of the China jump. The whole video is great in understanding why it is useful instead of a step out lunge or a scissor kick.



    OP isn't quite doing it as balanced or in as good rhythm as KC of course, but the idea is there and I don't think it's right to say it's bad because it doesn't look like a flat drive interception. For example, you wouldn't use the China jump in the video you linked to intercept a punch clear!
     
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  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Let's put aside the China jump and go back to working on your scissor leg jump which is a more basic and fundamental movement.

    In your shadowing strokes, the movement and switching of the legs is working quite well. However, once you are on court doing the practice, the movement breaks down and you step backwards with your right leg after hitting the shuttle with your old habits. This shows you are getting distracted by thinking about the next shot.

    I suggest that instead of doing a continuous rally routine, you do this training routine.:

    A) you low serve
    B) partner hits high up to the back of your court
    C) you hit a half strength smash with scissor kick
    D) stop completely I.e. partner doesn't even attempt to hit the shuttle.
    E) you focus on where your feet have landed after striking the shuttle. Check if you have got it the right foot landing in front of you

    Then repeat starting from the serve again. Do this for five to ten minutes in your practices on court.
     
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  20. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Ok ill try to do this Thursday!
     

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